As usual Jeff you are long winded and boring

Peggy,

At least I'm consistent!

Jeff

So you "know female voters"? I don't think so. Go back to writing about cheerleaders and the other white meat....

uggggh

Obama,Newt,or Mitt...im not sure how the American people can consider any of these canadates exceptable! Considering track records, filthy laundry , and general lack of any human like qualitys!

Mike,

You may have something there. I've always thought Mitt Romney was an android.

Jeff

Clearly you don't understand women voters OR conservatives. I, for one, would never vote for Obama and would NEVER stay home, no matter how pointless the electoral college renders my vote. Also, there are two sides to every story...most women know this even if you don't. Besides all this, basing the primary outcome on SC is short-sighted. They've picked the winner since 1980 but there was a lot of history before that. It's the bible-belt, they don't vote for a mormon, and Newt is a neighbor. But I wouldn't be so quick to discount Mitt!

Sounds reasonable to me.

Not much of a prediction. I agree with the eventual outcome, though I admit that I am less than thrilled at the prospect of another four years of stagnation. Though I did not vote for him, I was willing to give him a chance. Much like I am occasionally willing to order the special at Mon Ami Gabi only to be disappointed that I didn't get the steak. Obama's second term was set in stone when the RNC couldn't come up with one viable candidate to run against him . . . again. Now that Santorum has taken his lunatic, homophobic right-wing Christian act back to the east . . .and then there where three. Just like the day that Peter Gabriel left Genesis. The Romney camp's alleged digging up of Newt's second wife had the opposite effect of what I am certain they were looking for. That one interview catapulted Gingrich to the front, and the Romney tax return will most likely keep him there to stay. The fact that Newt is BSC is moot. Short of being found in a relationship with a 15 year-old, he is your nominee. I'll even go so far as saying a 15 year-old boy. His Christian constituency can obviously forgive a lot of indiscretions, but that one might be pushing it.

I will respectfully disagree with your opinion on this article, and I am disappointed by the pieces I have seen so far. Not because I disagree, but more because as I read your articles, I often feel like your purpose of writing is to push buttons. Not this one as much as the cheer leading one. I am not a mother to cheer leaders, nor was I a cheer leader, but I felt you were taking a jab at a very hard working group of kids (and their parents). As a moderate, my vote will go to the candidate who is most likely to balance the budget, cut spending, and support other policies that I see as fair. I think to generalize female voters is very unfair.

I understand what you said and although I hate to accept it I will have to agree. By the way I think it was an enjoyable read. I won't vote for any liars and that goes for anyone that says "I smoked it but didn't inhale"
jderiggi

I'm still roaring with laughter with what the Republicans tried to sway America with using Palin, never mind her "water hero running mate". Given the paths Romney and Gingrich are taking just to get past each other, there won't be anything left of Repulican party for terms to come!! They're going at each other like as if THEY were married and getting a divorce... I'm looking forward to Obama, but only if he really is the man like he displayed himself this past week. Go gettem Barack!!!

"considering past history"? Is there present history?
Your writing is "very unique".

I have no idea what happened to my Conservative party. This group of clowns does nothing but pander to the extreme right and are afraid to stray from the Tea Party shouting.

Let's face it. 80% of us are moderates. Some lean right and some left but most of us are in the middle with conservative fiscal and somewhat liberal ideologies.

Jeff is absolutely correct. President Obama wins pulling away.

Until we/they get a Norman Schwarzkopf type Republican the party is lost.

If your party is represented by people named Koch, Rove, Norquist and Walsh you deserve to lose. AND I'm not saying Soros is any better but I'd take him over Rove.

Not one mention of Paul in this entire conversation... sigh! Id like to read what everyone thinks of him.

Mr. Ward,
I applaud your guts. No matter how logical an argument, it is obvious that many, if not all, of the conservative and fringe voters will choose to vote AGAINST someone, rather than FOR the best person. And they are the ones who show up at the poles. I agree with your assessment of Newt, Mitt, the President and the way the Republicans will leave each of their "frontrunners" in a bloody mess by convention time. Obama will be the clean-up hitter. On to, what I hope will be, a bolder second term.

I have looked forward to your commentary in the past, and this just solidifies my admiration. Anyone who says anything positive about a Democratic president in a publication that serves this demographic, had better be prepared for the irrational onslaught of the Right and the "Righter." But as soon as women, and the beleaguered middle class realize that they have been voting against their own best interests, we will be living in a saner society. (Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen soon.) Bravo.

Well you don't have to be an Einstein to see the writing on the wall. We've reached a tipping point - between public sector union employees and welfare recipients the Libs now have enough voters on the dole to ensure they stay in power for many, many years to come. Wonder what will happen when they run out of people to tax? Pass the Ouzo, please...
(btw, Jeff, aren't you supposed to be limited to writing about soccer games and grocery stores?)

I wouldn't think women (especially conservative, christian women) would vote for Newt either, but the poll results from SC said that women and evangelicals voted for him over Romney. Such hypocrites.

Funny thing is that all these guys act like they can actually make a difference. As perfectly displayed over the last 2 years, the bozos in congress are the ones who can hijack the country. I think the real prediction we should be proving here is that the democrats are going to sweep congress again. Especially after the fiascos that in particularly the republicans in the house caused. So what we are going to end up with will be a democratic president and an overwhelmingly democratic congress. Maybe they will finally get something done!

Jeff, paraphrasing here: "The International Labor Organization (ILO) on Tuesday warned that unemployment across the globe is set to rise further in the next five years, adding that globally some 1.1 billion people were either unemployed or living in poverty.
(That's 1 out of 3 people worldwide!).
The report urged policy makers to act "decisively" and "in a coordinated fashion" to reduce the fear and uncertainty that is hindering private investment so that the private sector can restart the main engine of global job creation.
It warned that in times of faltering demand, further stimulus is important and this can be done in a way that does not put the sustainability of public finances at risk."

Having voted for more Republican candidates into office than Democrats, sadly, I must agree with your assessment. When a top Republican leader states (after having won a majority in the 2010 mid-terms) "Our top political priority over the next 2 years should be to deny Barack Obama a second term," - Mitch McConnell.
Really! That's all?
Do they even care about our country? Self-inflicted crises (debt ceiling stalemate).

What has happened to this Republican party? Can they not find an intelligent leader? A Doer that understands the other side? A Motivator who Inspires others to do well? One who has Strength, Courage and Conviction? Who is Generous, puts others first? Who sets Priorities, takes Risks, makes Mistakes? Yet learns from them?

Hmm, that sounds like Barack Obama.

Excellent column (again), Mr. Ward. Obama's record has been much better than the conservative-controlled media will report, and the top two Republican prospects are a guy born rich who became richer downsizing companies and moving jobs off-shore and who thinks a $350,000 income is modest; and an amoral blowhard opportunistic who broke his "'Til death do we part" vows twice and was tossed out of Congress by his own party for showing poor leadership and being unethical.

A lot can happen yet before the election, but so far the Republican contenders are lightweights going up against a Democrat who is at least a middleweight. (And, maybe if President Obama has Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden exchange jobs, the outlook for the ticket becomes even brighter.)

This week Newt pandered to the Cape Kennedy crowd promising them that if he was President for 8 years he would build a MOON BASE! One wonders where he plans to get the hundreds of billions for this given his plans to greatly cut taxes for the rich and still reduce the federal deficit. Strange also to see a Republican talk about expanding a federal agency other than of course the military. 



No where on his official web site (http://www.newt.org/) do I see anything about this moon base plan. I do see that he plans to SHRINK the education budget so wonders where the hundreds of thousands of highly skilled workers will come from. But then I see that he proposes to change immigration policies to allow MORE highly skilled workers come to America.



But I don't see that this campaign promise will be a problem for him. He constantly reminds the media to ignore his past. So 8 years from now, he will simply attack the media for dredging up the past!

I hope Newt "Lunatic" Gingrich becomes the GOP Presidential candidate! If Americans are so stupid to elect him President, then scientists can hound him everyday to live up to his campaign promise!

"That said, the guy who spoke on TV Tuesday night, I could get behind. The guy who’s been governing for the last four years—not so much."

And why do you think that the guy who spoke on TV Tuesday is different from the guy who's been governing the last four years? If "past history" shows us anything, he's just an orator who says what people want to hear, not necessarily what he intends to do or what is true. Open meetings? No lobbyist influence? Close Gitmo?

But, are people as fed up with Barack Obama as they were with Jimmy Carter? Political pundits thought Ronald Reagan was the wrong candidate for the GOP, when compared to people like George Bush, Phil Crane, and Howard Baker.

In hindsight, it turns out that people would have voted for Richard Nixon for a third term, because they were tired of Jimmy Carter's ineffectiveness.

Also, no president has won reelection, when unemployment has been at either 7.0% or 7.5% or higher. I believe unemployment is still at 8.5%, and most economists agree that it won't fall below 8% until after the November election.

That doesn't bode well for the President.

The other problem is that, in my opinion, Barack Obama isn't as likealbe as Bill Clinton. Despite his personal issues, Bill Clinton turned on the southern charm, channeled his inner Bubba, and could wow an audience in a townhall setting. Obama just doesn't ooze charisma the way Clinton did, and he doesn't do well, without the teleprompter.

I believe the unemployment rate under Reagan at the comparable point in time was over 8%, and it was over 10% for something like 8-9 months.

Thanks Jeff!

I notice that those who are attacking you for this piece don't say a word in defense of the Newt.

A link to a great smack down of the Newt by R Emmet Tyrrell:

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/william-jefferson-gingrich/87674/

I like the way you think, Jeff. If the President continues to respond like he did on Tuesday night, I will have no problem voting for him again. He needs to get tougher and act like the "boss." On the other side - I can't even hear a sound bite from the Republican debates without getting sick to my stomach. Who are these people and where do they come from?? Can't they find more middle-of-the-road candidate options? To me, every single one from the past 8-10 years is unelectable. Obama/Clinton 2012!!!

Might we assume you mean primarily socially conservative evangelical Christians when you refer to "religious right and other wacky elements"? (I guess I would qualify for the label. Christ was called worse.) But you might not have noticed many of us have roundly rejected the front runners for the winner of the Iowa Caucus, Rick Santorum. Rick has been endorsed by a number of evangelical organizations. My friends in the faith are up to the gills with the Newt 'n' Mitt show and are solidly behind Santorum. You might have that part of the story wrong.

But, I do compliment you on an otherwise well written and engaging critique of the situation. Unfortunately, from my perspective I think you will be proved correct on just about every point regarding the President.

Dan,

Wait a second! By religious right and other wacky elements I meant folks who would boo a gay soldier, boo the golden rule, ignore Newt's shortcomings and applaud a hypothetical man dying of cancer.

You clearly are not in that group. I would've explained it further in the column, but as Peggy so eloquently put it, I was already getting "long-winded!"

Jeff

1 more term of Obama and 2 terms of Hillary....we are so f***ed.

Dear Mr. Ward,
Thank you for your recent columns. Please continue to tell me what’s in my best interest and what I’m thinking. As a woman, I’ve always been so unable to do either of those things without the wise help of a man.

In the future, I’ll be sure to not engage in anything that has only women supporting only men. I’ll also try to not consider how a man treats a woman or how he does or doesn’t honor his religious vows when deciding whether to vote him into office. You know. Maybe it’d just be better if I and my “sisters” let you big, strong, intelligent men make all those decisions while we support you. Or would that be sexist and not in our best interest?

Please advise.

What is so bad about Obama? So far he has kept his pants on, got Bin Laden, Put more regulations on Wall Street and banks. Unemployment is going down. Insurance companies can no longer deny pre-exsisting conditions. Private sector jobs are going up, Gays can serve openly. General Motors is number one again. Things are looking up. We need four more years.

Jeff,

Take it from an economics major. We still had stagflation going well into 1981. What basically happened is that Fed Chairman Paul Voelker put the economy into a recession and tightened up the money supply to wring out inflation.

You're right that Carter, as well as Gerald Ford, recognized that we were in stagflation, and that Nixon's price-and-wage controls had made things worse. Yet, home mortgage rates were around 8% when Carter took office, and north of 12% when he left office.

Wow...This country has added millions of food stamp users since Obama won office. Can anyone tell me anything else this man has done for the better? Please don't tell me the Democrat party has fallen so far that putting American's on food stamps is a Win!

"This is what happens when the Tea Party, religious right and other wacky elements"

You can print that with no fear of repercussions, If I wrote an article referring to muslums, immigrants, homosexuals and other wacky elements, I would be arrested for a hate crime. Yet you can say something like that and at the same time assume the moral high ground. Well hold on to your butt sonny, because that ground is about to heave.

30.8 million Americans on food stamps in October 2008--End Bush Era
46.2 million Americans on food stamps in October 2011--Obama 3rd year.

Were is the progress? Numbers don't lie people.

Why hasn't Obama talked like this in the past?

Answer. He does not want to run as who he's been, but who he thinks the people who decide elections want him to be.

Like all democrats he's a Cameleon. No not a Newt.

He can fool all of the democrats all of the time, some of the middle, moderates some of the time, but none of the conservatives at any time.

Jeff, Picking on Conservatives is not a sport either.

Another little fact...Just so the Democrats here don't think that Bush wasn't trying...

The number of food stamp beneficiaries had started to head upward under President George W. Bush, partly because of more aggressive efforts to get eligible Americans to apply for benefits, and partly because of changes in the rules that had the effect of broadening eligibility. The experts we spoke to agreed that both policies began under Bush but were retained by Obama.

So Bush did try the welfare state well ahead of Obama and it didn't work. W Bush was not a conservative. He was a Republican in name only. The last true conservative, Republican was Ronald Reagan. So I don't want to hear any Democrats blaming Republican idea's because of the Bush Famliy. Bush merely continued Clinton policies for the most part, except for his wars.(which I was not a fan of BTW)

What scares me about Obama is that he is pushing us twords the European model of government and the European model is failing. Maybe it's time to go back to the 1984 model of governing fiscally responsibly. Just so everyone knows...I don't care about your social agenda's. I don't care if your gay. I don't care if you want an abortion. I don't care if you are anti war. All I care about is my money!!!!!!! If more American's felt this way we would be much better off.

Guys, Guys!

Though you're welcome to go off on whatever tack you like, this column was not meant to be any kind of commentary on the pros or cons of President Obama. I was simply making a prediction!

Jeff

You started it Jeff. Did you really think your prediction wasn't going to spark discussion. That is what Patch and you want! LOL

On another note, please visualize and or pray for Colin Campbell's swift recovery from hip replacement surgery. The reason he hasn't added his .02 cents here is he just had the surgery!

Jeff

0h... you know female voters? Im a female voter and I wouldnt vote for obama in a life time. of course you go into saying how "scummy newt is" cause he divorced his wife, you never know what goes on in peoples life. But its not like any democrats cheat or divorce.. your just a typical deomcrat who probably has an obama sign in his yard. you know female voters... ha gooo newt!

DO NOT CENSOR THIS POSTING!!! THANKS!! THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS POST THAT WOULD JUSTIFY CENSORING IT!!
The issue is quite simple. To be President of the USA or to run for the Presidency of the USA, Obama must be a “natural born citizen” according to the Constitution of the USA. The term “natural born citizen” has been defined previously and it requires two conditions:
1) Obama must be born in the USA.
The forged document provided by the White House web site of Obama’s supposedly long form birth certificate is simply that, a bad forgery!
Therefore, the only way to check this long form birth certificate is to go to Hawaii and to check directly the original long form birth certificate and in particular to assess if even this original is genuine that is if it is not also a forgery!!
2) Obama’s parents MUST BOTH be American citizens.
We know that Obama’s father was a Kenyan and that he NEVER was an American citizen!!!!!
—– A Place to Ask Questions and Get the Right Answers” at http://puzo1.blogspot.com/
In particular, read:
—”The Natural Born Citizen Clause of Our U.S. Constitution Requires that Both of the Child’s Parents Be U.S. Citizens At the Time of Birth” at http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/09/natural-born-citizen-clause-requires.html
Obama was born in Kenya and not a naturalizeborn citizen and every secretary of state will now ask him for his Birth certificate to be a canadate in any state.

I don't care if he is from the moon...His policies have not helped.

Cheerleaders are cute and they make you feell good.

Politics does neither.

Nick,

Thanks. I actually like OBama as a person. I am sure he would be fun to have a beer with and talk sports.

Jeff, chad and ken must be related. Totally misinformed and so far to the right the yare headed to saturn.

Really Paul, tell us your lefty agenda again? LOL

Cuzz its worked so well in the past. Hahahhahahahahahaaaaaahahahaa!!! Get in line to get your food stamps!!! ahhahahahahahahaaaaaahhhaaaa

I'm waiting in line at Costco today, trying to save money by buying the staples in bulk. There are 2 women and a man in front of me unloading their stuff on the belt; a lot of stuff. The man pulls 3 bottles of liquor, a case of beer and a pair of shorts behind saying he'll pay for them separate. Cashier rings up the first order and the one lady runs her card; won't work. The clerk tries re-running the card several times but it still won't work. Clerk calls a supervisor who comes over, sees that they are trying to use a Link card and says "There's a new way to enter it but he doesn't remember how". Errr... They find another clerk who knows the process and gets it approved; $250+ of stuff. They then ring up the second order and I'm thinking here we go again. The clerk gives him the total ($119) and he peels 6 $20 bills off a huge wad! Now I'm thinking WTF! All three are well dressed and appear professional. I keep my mouth shut and wait my turn. Ring up my stuff, pay for it and proceed outside.

This abuse is rampent and is the norm Paul. Tell me how this is progress. Oh...wait...snap...you cant.

Back to the topic at hand - why can't the GOP produce an electable candidate?

Jeff

Mindwashed? really? really? Wow...Obama hasnt done a thing on his agenda so far but everyone is back drinking the cool aid. Love it...Who is brainwashed again??

Ray,

less fortunate or lazy?

Jeff I sincerely hope you are wrong with your prediction. Not a fan of the others myself but Mr. Obama will completely ruin us if he stays in another 4 years.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304657804576401412033504294.html

Food stamp abuse. Not sure many of the posters here will be able to be unbiased but I will try anyway.

When's the Cubs opener? This dialogue makes little sense.

Thanks for the conversation everyone. This was fun.

Jeff
Since you stated your 7 years of election predictions as fact, please prove that your statement is correct.

An old friend of mine, a Republican since HS (he dragged us quite a few Young Republican events) told me recently that he "didn't leave the Republican Party, it left him". You've touched on many of the reasons why and why also, I would never vote for Newt Gingrich. As a woman, it's true that his hypocrisy bothers me but, that is only part of the story. My distaste for him runs much deeper. He panders to the far right, discriminates against others and makes moral judgments while dismissing his own failings as "forgiven". I don't want Newt or any other politician choosing how I worship my faith nor do I care to listen to his religious pronouncements. His ever changing views (especially on healthcare) have run the gamut from moderate to more extreme as of late. This shows me he is willing to say anything that will get him power and an audience. He is contemptuous of people of lessor means and chooses to believe that most welfare recipients choose not to work. I feel he is morally bankrupt and the greatest of many evils that have graced the parade of Republican candidates for President. Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Santorum and Cain....The Republican Party in general, has lost it's way.

I am a local business owner and I vividly remember the last quarter of 2008. For all you GOP whiners out there....the stock market was crashing,and we were losing thousands of jobs per month while our great white leaders king BUSH/CHENEY were packing up and heading home to their mansions and cushy retirement plans while all the working slobs cowered in the basement. Send some more money overseas to fight a few more illegal military conflicts and then cry about the national debt. I laid off 30 solid Americans in 2009 and 10 in 2010 and quess what, you memory dead ( from watching FOX news )zombies,none in 2011 and I will hiring in 2012. Pres. Obama may not be the best leader but you can't deny he has stopped the bleeding. If the Republicans could just overcome their blatant racism , we could move forward as a solid union.As for the woman backing crazy Newt....maybe she will lead that MOON colony in 4 years.....my god !!

Chad- you must have tons of spare time to focus on food stamps....there is fraud and abuse in every aspect of life, private and government...for the majority of those receiving this benefit, it is a life-saver....when the hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens lost their jobs in 2009....what would Chad recommend ...eat their shoes ...beg out in front of Home Depot for change. Maybe you should stop by the local food pantry for a dose of reality.

I agree the GOP presidential candidates seem like a bunch of clowns. And I think they know it. There have been news bits about other potential candidates still entering the race.....Mitch Daniels.

I wanted to point out one glaring flaw to your argument about women not voting for cheaters. What about Free Willy Clinton. Didn't he pretty much admit as much on that 60 minutes show during his first campaign.

I can see Obama winning this election, but the dems for 2 more? Who even heard of Obama 3 years before he was elected president? As a nation it seems like we like to swing from one extreme to the next. So I imagine we will elect a GOP president the next time around. It seems like the opposing party has put up a weak candidate after the first 4 the last couple of presidents (John Kerry & Bob Dole)

I am always amazed by the comments that another 4 years of obama will ruin our country. Have you been a sleep for the last decade? This poor guy inherited the biggest mess in our countries history from 8 years of what will go down as the worst president ever in bush and you expect him to clean the mess up overnight. Amazing how moronic some are. Just amazing.

Is there anyway to block Ward, I dont even want to see his little snippets on the side of this website

First of all, great column! I am not a fan of Obama nor did I vote for him...however, you are right. The Republicans are not offering us a leader. Sad. People blaming Obama for the economic woes in this country need to check the Bureau of Statistics. They will find that unemployment was the highest yet during the last year and a half of the Bush administration. These are non-partisan numbers. Also, I find it interesting that no one seems to realize that when Obama took office we had a 1.7 trillion dollar deficit. Nearly 780 billion dollars in war debt was passed on to the Obama administration by the Bush administration. Also, Bush Fans, between 10 and 20 billion dollars was "lost" during transport to the Iraqi Government to help set up its economy. How do you lose that much money and who is stupid enough to transport cash when they could have electronic transferred it? Obama is a liar? Wait a minute, are you guys telling us that he is the first politician to lie? Wow.
I see misinformation spread thru the internet daily and the sad truth is too people will take this as Gospel. And that is why we are in trouble. Too many people still voting for a Party instead of who will accomplish something. Bush had six years to fix the economy and did NOTHING. Dont expect any President to fix it in a few years.

Whew...long winded? Indeed! Keep writing Jeff..if nothing else you inspire some very interesting responses!

Rod,

Thanks! You can count on death, taxes and me writing!

Jeff

I am going to keep posting this so people can see that I practice what I preach.

I have been laid off. I worked Conway transportation durring the late 90's and was laid off. I took 4 weeks of unemployment and found another job and went back to college and got my degree. There problem solved. Oh and I went into debt over 25k in the process. The American Dream right?

Nuff said. Your not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

Chad Walz: I deleted some of your comments for inappropriate language. We appreciate your comments, but if we see any more, we'll have to suspend your account. Readers: If you see any comments with swear words, please flag them.

Sorry to Chad Walz. There were so many swear words in so many comments, I had to suspend your account. Our apologies, too, to readers. If you see a swear word or inappropriate comment, please flag it or contact your LE.

From Chad Walz:
"Storm, I have been laid off. I worked Conway transportation durring the late 90's and was laid off. I took 4 weeks of unemployment and found another job and went back to college and got my degree. There problem solved. Oh and I went into debt over 25k in the process. The American Dream right?"

Chad, I think you missed my point. It was about folks using food stamps and unemployment having expensive, cool, neat stuff (big screen TVs or nices cars, etc). At one time they were employed - that's when they bought the cool stuff.
Unemployment and food stamps barely enables a family to get by. Is there abuse? I'm sure there is.

OTOH, as commendable as it is (how you overcame it), your experience being unemployed in the 90's pales in comparison to today's job market and economic condition. AAMOF, there is no comparison at all.

As for your facebook "friend" who saw all the supposed food stamp users buying cool stuff at Costco, I highly doubt it occurred. It's a perfect example of an internet hoax.

Seriously??? I do believe you judge unjustly and without wisdom. I feel sorry for you. You are a loose cannon without a future. Here is some advice, don't start a column as a journalist with your take on the Old Testament. It has credibility. You show you posess none and utter foolishness. You discredit yourself when you speak.

Since Ron Paul cannot win, I need to focus on 2016 and get Rand Paul elected.

My prediction is Obama will be re-elected so move on.

Oh Jeff, I think you're correct - Obama will win in November. I'm so discouraged. I voted for him and really believed he would be a departure from 'politics as usual', with big corporate money running the show. I believed there was this wonderful groundswell of real people that would finally take the reins of they way our country is governed. But 3 years in it just seems like 'big oil money' has been replaced by 'big union money', and he squandered so much political will strongarming his healthcare initiative that will most likely be struck down as unconstitutional. And I'm sickened by the fact that the rate of deficit spending is increasing exponentially each day. I feel terrible about the country we will be leaving to our children because we were too weak to take back our government.

I'm looking for some kind of light on the horizon, the only thing that looks close is Ron Paul - but I'm afraid we, as a people, are so conditioned to "what are you going to give me?" from our politicians that Paul could never be elected.

What I don't understand is why some of the people who supported a change from Bush policy (several aspects of which were contributing to the economic recession) and voted for Obama are now blaming Obama for the economic condition and want to vote back in someone who will implement the Bush policy even more aggressively.

Cathy Goodman - Excellent point! I totally agree.

I agree. Most people who voted for Obama did not do so because, they thought he could cure everything overnight or even in three years. Those who are complaining that not enough has changed and think we need to go back to the policies that put us in these die straights, should be careful what they wish for. Given the climate in Washington, it's surprising that any progress has been made at all....but, it has.

P Arnold wrote: "Most people who voted for Obama did not do so because, they thought he could cure everything overnight or even in three years. "

Such arrogance to presume to know what "most people" were thinking.

This is what "most people" were thinking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA

Hello Jeff,
You say that women won't vote for a cheater but they elected Clinton twice. Don't you remember the 60 Minutes episode. If history has taught us anything, it is the economy stupid!

Don,

The difference between Newtenstein and Clinton is that Clinton did not admit to the cheating until well into his second term. The reason Gore lost despite their fiscal success is because that election was a referendum on Clinton's cheating.

Jeff

Actually Clinton and his wife went on sixty minutes and admitted that he wasn't perfect in response to a softball question about his rumored cheating. It was Hillary standing by her man part one as I remember. The interview made it clear that Billy was a rascal.

Appare4ntly the moveon myrmidons have elected to moveon. Hey, did you get the good news? According to the CBO: "The government faces a fourth year of trillion-plus deficits in 2012, according to new projections released Tuesday—numbers which also show little relief in the future unless Washington comes to grips with needed changes in its tax and spending policies." That obama, what a guy.

Please, no one tell him what comes after "TRILLION"!

Garry - "Such arrogance to presume to know what "most people" were thinking."
In response to my post concerning why people who voted for Obama were not expecting an overnight cure. Not "most people", Garry.......most people who voted for Obama.

Is that what passes for reasonable discussion in your world?

Ah, so you know what "most people who voted for Obama" were thinking.
How do you presume to know what is in the minds of others? Typical liberal arrogance.

more of the same.... presumptions of your own and no original thought.

P Arnold, are you by chance a teacher?

Ask Senator Sandack who he liked back in December.....former Governor John Huntsman comes to mind from his twitter account. He had a whole 4% of America behind him. Thought this blog needed a little humor!

More assumptions Garry?

um, no...that was a question.

Storm Nielsen 4:12 pm on Tuesday, January 31, 2012

"Please enlighten me,…, just what are those "needed changes in its tax and spending policies"?"
~~~~~~~~
First the democrat senate needs to formulate and pass a budget, which it is statutorily obligated to pass by 1 Oct ANNUALLY! The last one was passed on April 29, 2009, over 1000 days ago. Is this concept too difficult for democrats to understand? Someone wake harry reid and explain the days of his budget by cr’s are going to soon be over. During this “no budget” period the senate budget committee has spent 12M dollars and obama has spent FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS! Yeah, tax me more.

Second, rather than making up stories for inclusion in the sotu obama should begin to deal with facts like actually reducing his new 1.2T deficit vice telling us how much more he intends to spend. How about we transition to a zero-based budgeting approach. No more tricks: reducing what we borrow does not constitute cutting spending!

Third, rescind the cost prohibitive, as verified by the cbo, obamacare.

We have a SPENDING problem, not a taxing problem. We all know that the more money government confiscates the more it will waste. WE ARE BROKE and both the republicans and the democrats better begin dealing with it – NOW!

Three years of obama failure demands he be replaced with even a toadstool because a toadstool would inflict less damage on our country and thus be a better choice. ABO!

As I thought, UB, very non -specific shouting rhetoric and ideas gleamed from idealogues whose sole purpose is to defeat the present POTUS.
Should we cut Medicare? Cut Social Security? End Tax breaks for big business? End Payroll tax breaks? End extended unemployment benefits? End Medicaid? End Food Stamps? Cut the military and get out of Afganistan, S Korea, mothball our Navy? Dismiss all those federal employees?
Just what are those sacred cows that should be ended?

Here's one of my ideas: Bring the guys home from Afghanistan and use drones. Oops! the POTUS is doing just that.
How about questioning the inequity of salaries. Upper management salaries have risen faster than middle and lower income types.
How about questioning why there has been no accountability in the bailout of the nation's banks (on the part of the bank management).
Why are CDSs even allowed?

Good Lord, I could go on.

Obama now wants to tell the church's in this country how to run thier organizations. No thanks. This guy is all about social engineering. this is a bad man.

Here is what the Obama gang wants to do to your health care.

ObamaCare further requires that health-insurance plans must provide sterilizations, contraceptives and abortifacients without any fees or co-pay.

The regulation, issued as part of the initial implementation of Obamacare, requires Catholics to act against their faith--which teaches that sterilization, artificial contraception and abortion violate the natural law and that Catholics cannot be involved in them.

In a statement, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops immediately condemned the administration's decision to move forward with the regulation as "literally unconscionable."

The regulation will go into effect on Aug. 1.

Hurrah - stocks market is up 50%, GDP is positive, autos are back, Osama is dead, we're out of Iraq, confidence is surging, manufacturing is growing nicely, 3MM jobs added to private sector in 20 months - yes, 4 MORE years!!!

Storm Nielsen - 12:12 pm on Wednesday, Feb 1

Medicare – provide stipend and privatize. Make the individual shop and be responsible for monies spent

Social security – extend years until eligibility, increase contribution amount for top earners

Tax breaks for business – maintain

Payroll tax breaks – end them

Extended unemployment – make community service mandatory and or job training, drug test recipients, after 52 weeks it becomes a “loan” with future payback required

Medicaid – only citizens eligible, verify need

Food stamps – drug test, increase security

Military spending – refine but avoid drastic cuts, total withdrawal from Iraq may have been too soon and must be avoided in Afghanistan, if we leave a void in military strength some country will fill it be it China or Russia or maybe someone else

Eliminate the departments of education, commerce, housing and urban development, and energy for starters

Salaries – decrease government interference and allow people to work hard and maximize their income

Bank accountability? Don’t you recall barney frank telling us EVERYONE should have a house? Remember the penalties banks would experience if they DIDN’T increase their mortgage portfolio? What about the GSE’s Freddie and Fannie! Review their corruption and involvement in this mess. And we’re still bailing them out to the tune of BILLIONS!

Now you explain to me just where obama has been for the LAST THREE YEARS!

Ah, I see your point - and I am so sorry you are so out of touch.

Congrats to FoxNews channel for being the #1 cable news channel for 10 consecutive years. Sorry CNN and MSNBC!!! You are out of touch.

None of us in IL will matter one bit in this election anyway. No need for us to argue anymore. If we lived in a swing state we would be relevant. IL has almost NEVER gone Republican in its history...maybe Lincoln...hahaha!!!

Illinois went for the Ronald Reagan in 1980 and 1984.

Obama should be pouring Bill Clinton's coffee.

4 more years MLK style speeches.....yawn.

Storm Nielsen - 10:34 p Feb 1, 2012

“Ah, I see your point - and I am so sorry you are so out of touch.”
~~~~
Now storm even the most hard-core myrmidon must at some point accept reality: it would be obama, reid and pelosi that are “so out of touch”. While we’re at it let’s throw patty “I’m fiddling as fast I can while Illinois burns” quinn into the democrat mix. The Chicaga’ union members and patronage workers may be experiencing a fiscal revelation; the democrat house of cards is collapsing.

Hey storm, familiar with saul alinsky? Here’s an excerpt from his “method” of social change.

“… friendly Change Agent begins to act as "devil’s advocate," becoming an agitator. The process involves playing one part of the group against another, the "divide and conquer" technique. Anyone who is not clearly in accord with the Facilitator’s agenda is made to appear ridiculous, inarticulate, ignorant or dogmatic. The idea is to make these members of the group angry thus escalating tensions. The end object being to shut opposition voices out of the group.”

Ring any bells storm?

Mr. Burgandy, I understand your cynicism (None of us in IL will matter …), but obama has lied so often, failed the country so miserably, has damaged our world stature so extensively, and been so “alinsky” divisive that even the most ardent of the democrat mesmerized mindless are admitting that to retain this clown would be a tragic mistake.

How my doin’ mr ward?

Uncle Buckeye, I tend to dismiss those who would rather shout on a blog and then use ad hominems as their weapon of choice in an engagement. So what is your next step? You're very close to Godwin's Law as it is. Why not go there as well.

But wait, you're into Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae aren't you? Do you want to go on about Ed DeMarco and his little deceit?

How about those CDSs that were so popular?

Emily Ward Golden - you've posed the question a couple of times on this thread re, 'what's so bad about unions?'

In a nutshell - a union involved in the private sector negotiates with management, but has a vested interest in the company remaining solvent, A bankrupt company is no good to the union (unless the Gov steps in to bail it out, but that's another topic)

A public sector union, however, is a different animal entirely, When a public union negotiates, it does so with government officials who are spending somebody else's money (taxpayers) and if the government officials are very nice and give the union everything they want, they can count on near-unanimous support at the polls come election time.
About 175 years ago, a man named Alexis DeTocqueville said, "The American Republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." which is exactly what's happening in our state and country today.

Emily, no need to get so upset. I think any rational person would agree that a union negotiating for taxpayer dollars in exchange for votes is going to be subject to abuse.
I don't begrudge you your 3 K. In 20 years when you're earning 120K with lifetime medical and full pension I may have a different opinion.

As for discrediting De Tocqueville (not Tocqueville) because he "wasn't even an American"...gosh, I don't know what to say.
ps) you may have a grossly inflated sense of what your skill set would bring in the private sector

Oh I missed the 'De'? My sincerest apologies. How utterly foolish of me.
P.S. don't worry about my skill set, sir. I worked for 5 years in the private sector in a nice cushy job. I think I'll be ok but I appreciate your professional concern, it's touching.

Garry said - "The remaining demographic in IL will vote Obama no matter what.".........Such arrogance to presume to know how "the remaining demographic in IL", will vote. If you are right, I'll raise a glass and toast your incredible powers of prediction.

Emily, will you join me?

Storm Nielsen - 2:54 pm, February 2, 2012

Ah yes the standard use of a feckless comment, this one regarding a protocol to avoid response. Why is it that liberals just throw things at walls to incite comment but will never actually address an issue? Could it be they are unable storm?

I suggest you review the meaning of ad hominem rather than mischaracterize my comments.

Freddie and Fannie – I was thinking about frank “should have gone to jail” rains and the huge obama kickbacks vice ed demarco who has, much to the aggravation of democrats, elected to protect the taxpayers money. “Do you want to go on about Ed DeMarco and his little deceit” storm?

Have a nice evening.

P. Arnold, I would toast to that, for sure!

You college kids just think you have it all figured out. I can't believe how people can be lead around like cattle.

Who is a college kid? I'm 33.

Then why has it taken you so long to make just $35k? What were you doing for the last 10 to 12 years? I made $35k per year over 10 years ago before I quit to raise my kids. I am not trying to be a jerk here. You are pro union yet you only make a the bottom of the union pay scale. An IT person, if you can find the work, make at least 2x to 3x that in the private sector. So why so pro union? What are they doing for you?? $35k is only a little above the poverty level in America. You would make more money holding a construction flag on a highway road crew. Just sayin. We all make our choices in life. We all need to be responsible for ourselves and not rely on the government or a union to provide for us.

I wonder why, the very highly paid, executives don't unionize? Ah yes, they don't need the protection of a union. Employees on the lower end of the pay scale are the ones who need representation and collective bargaining rights.

Do employers in general, treat their employees as valued contributors to the success of the operation? Are employees compensated fairly, are working conditions safe and benefits provided? Unions exist because historically, that hasn't been the case. Today, the discrepancy between executive pay (both in the private and public sector) and a worker's wage is wider than it's ever been. A living wage is hard to come by.

Some people who have "made it" or have it made, bemoan the fact that the poor and the working poor are a burden on society. Yet, these same people complain when safeguards are put in place to pull the poor out of poverty and unions push for meaningful gains to worker's wages, etc. It can't be both ways. Persons who make a living wage become consumers. Consumer purchase the goods which fuels our economy. Why is that a problem?

Storm Nielsen - 10:25 pm on February 2, 2012
~~~~~~~

huckleberry - 4:12 pm on Jan 31, "Please enlighten me,…, just what are those "needed changes in its tax and spending policies"?"

Remember my answer? Nah, too much to expect. Well, good news ……

The House approved H.R. 3578, the Baseline Reform Act, by a 235-177 bipartisan vote. Golly, real cuts could be instituted vice mere fictional ones.

The House also approved the Pro-Growth Budgeting Act, which would require the Congressional Budget Office to provide macroeconomic analysis of bills with major budget impacts. How instructive, an analysis that would describe the economic impact of the bill, including on GDP, business investment, employment and other economic variables. Think obamacare!

Can’t wait to see if harry will bring either to a senate vote. What is it now, twenty-six or twenty-seven house jobs bills stuck in the democrat controlled senate? Do ya think harrry knows?

huckleberry - “But how about the CDSs?”

Those were addressed by dodd-frank correct. Hey, is chris dodd in jail?

huckleberry - “BTW, I'm a conservative Independent”

Thank goodness we can at least both agree on the required mandatory repeal of obamacare correct.

Uncle Buckeye:

Curiously, you have seemed to have omitted any mention whatsoever of Ed DeMarco. Could you be tap dancing because you know he's deceitful.

Who cares anyway, Right? It only affects every homeowner in danger of foreclosure.

But I guess whatever suits your conscience.

BTW, my comments end today regarding this burned out topic.

huckleberry - 7:36 pm on February 3, 2012

Well, another display of liberals unable to engage in reasonable dialogue with the only thing benefiting from their myrmidon mentality being obama.

BTW - 02/03/2012 : “Senate Democratic leaders do not plan to propose a budget this year, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters Friday, saying that they had already done so with the debt-ceiling agreement.
“We do not need to bring a budget to the floor this year — it’s done, we don’t need to do it,” Reid said, according to The Hill.”
This means that the obama regime will have NEVER passed a budget which it is statutorily obligated to do by 1 Oct of each year. Add this to the twenty-five plus house bills still awaiting a senate vote and you truly have a prototypical “obstructionist” party.

Ah huckleberry, you did jump the gun just a little. This will definitely be a “burned out topic” after the November 2012 elections when obama is kicked to the curb.

Until then huckleberry …….

Fatima, I thoroughly enjoyed your post.

Perhaps this may explain some of the obtuse reasoning posted above:
“A great ox stands on my tongue.”
― Aeschylus, The Oresteia

Indeed.

I've oft times endeavoured to fathom if F. Herbert based his writings upon The Oresteia.

And then, in the dustbin and rubbish the ravings of the common man must be deigned. Amidst that, isn't the question of why the opposing party has not furnished an interlocutor that could be sentenced/

On another thought, the Afghan War is addressed. i must ask, which colonialistic nation would seek enterprise within that sad kingdom. we know that china has given the Persians their Silkworms, yet we fear the tatars.

I think not, they have found their God.

Salut, Sirs and Madams, the night has begun and iawait my partner's arrival.

Fatima - 3:51 pm on February 4, 2012

“How odd that you would use the hellenic term, sir.

May I assume that you refer to those who support our president? You are aware that it is a term of great respect, admiration and recognition of bravery?

Perhaps you are a scholar of the lost plays of Aeschylus?”
~~~~~~

I am referencing a hellenic “term”, note the small “m” which connotes those that blindly follow without question the dictates of someone, in this case a hopelessly inept obama.

That may serve to explain some of the obtuse reasoning posted by some liberals.

I see.

Fatima - 12:52 pm on February 5, 2012

“I apologise for any misconceptions I may have presumed.

Yet, tersely and wantonly, I ask, as the Hellenes culture has been an admired society over the ages.
Therefore, you are endeavouring to act as the messenger of another?

Or, is this an original thought that you have determined to be, henceforth, should be used in a most flippant manner?

If so, sir, why insult a great culture?”
~~~~~~

I haven’t a clue to what you refer. I in no way acted as a messenger of anyone nor have I insulted any culture. I merely used a commonly accepted term.

Fatima, Uncle appears to be a polemicist.

Ah, a religious philospher. Much like V. Lenin or Theoleptus, there is a certain amount of churlishness in their delight.

As a young lad, my brother fancied the use of words that he had learnt listening to others. These, he used quite often.

When queried, we found he had little understanding of the lexicon. Indeed, it was to seek attention.

Argumentative in the face of any and all reason.

Djordje (my brother) emigrated for the Azores. He became a doctor of animal husbandry. A far cry from the Serbian highlands. Although my family derive of Eastern Orthdox. Djordje followed the teachings of St Francis. Admonished for his particular ways, he measured his countenance and thus (sic) followed his true pathos.
It is the diaspora of our ethnicity, lately.

I suspect that this has traveled a wee bit off the topic. Mr Ward, I apologise in advance.

This thread has derailed...

Uncle Buckeye wrote.........
"Fatima – “Uncle appears to be a polemicist.”
Sorry, Uncle....that was me. If you are mocking word choice, at least direct your mockery in the right direction.

P Arnold - 11:54 am on February 6, 2012

“Sorry, Uncle....that was me. If you are mocking word choice, at least direct your mockery in the right direction.”
~~~
mocking ???????

I have no idea how my response to your comment could be construed as mocking but ok P.

It must be your tone, throughout this thread, that leads me to believe that you mock.

As to a query of reasons that Mr obama shall remain president, I offer these:

He has ended Iraqi military action with withdrawal of troops.
He has announced the end of the Afghan military action by 2013.
Mr Romney who appears to be the likely candidate to oppose Mr Obama in the upcoming election, wishes to continue the war.

P Arnold, thank you for setting the facts correctly with regard to polemicist.

You are welcome, Fatima.

Fatima - 10:14 am

“As to a query of reasons that Mr obama shall remain president, I offer these:”
~~~~
Careful Fatima, P will think you a polemicist. In rebuttal I will offer these:

obama ended Iraqi military action? Are you aware of the Status of Forces Agreement of 2008?

He has failed to provide a statutorily obligated budget for three years. Why would that be?

Via tricks and bribes obama foisted the very unpopular obamacare on the voter. Are you aware of the forthcoming 2014 tax increases inherent in obamacre?

Failed policy after failed policy, after failed policy and he still blames geo bush for his terrible economy three years later.

Fifty percent more denials of freedom of information requests than bush – so much for transparency.

Has verifiably been the most divisive president in history.

Along with the devalued dollar obama’s lack of a cogent energy policy has among other things allowed gasoline prices to more than double in three years with future projections well exceeding current prices. Mandatory obama-volts for everybody!

He has watched the middle-east erupt into a huge Islamic mess. So much for leading from behind.

FIVE TRILLION in new debt since January 2009 – that would be in his first three years! Did you hear him talk about any entitlement cuts in his sotu? Want to guess what would happen if he had four more with no concern of election?

No more bowing and no more apologies: the people have learned no more obama!

Uncle,
It's a shame to disappoint you but, Fatima's reasoned discussion bears little resemblance to your aggressive dialogue. Just as your descriptions of President Obama bear little resemblance to the actual person.

Dear Uncle Buckeye,

You have offered only opinion, whilst I have offered facts. The SOFA, as you should be aware is cogent in its application. If wished to do so, either party could change the date of agreement.
Sadly, your arguments of other perceived presidential failings are no more than the railings of a man grasping at straws. Would not any myrmidon of a particular wireless host parrot those same misconceptions?

I think so. Therefore, please pass on the "Boortzisms". Try to come up with an original idea, not so keen on a chuntering chappie.

As for the Afghan War, if Mr Romney and the others have not been aware of the ongoing talks, then they are quite honestly ignorant.

Fatima - 7:48 pm on February 7, 2012

“He has ended Iraqi military action with withdrawal of troops.”

”He has announced the end of the Afghan military action by 2013.”

These are your “facts”?
~~~~~~
First, all obama did was complete execution of the Bush “Status of Forces” agreement.

Second, an “announcement” of intent of anything when proffered by obama has proven more often than not to be meaningless.

Now would you like to discuss obama’s five trillion dollars in new debt since January, 2009, the lack of a damn budget for three years, his fifty percent increase of denials of freedom of information requests, no cogent workable energy policy, or the doubling of gasoline prices since he assumed his reign?

Only an unabashed myrmidon could ignore obamas demonstrated ineptitude to task and myriad verifiable lies. Correct Fatima?

Uncle Buckeye, hardly anything you have said is true. Obama inherited a country in a total downward spiral due to Bush's ineptitude. ENRON, Wall Street corruption, regulatory ineffectiveness, heckuva job Brownie, surplus turned into massive debt, skyrocketing debt/unemployment/bankruptcies, and 9/11 all happened on the Republican watch. Now there's some legacy to return to, isn't it? The Republican leadership over the last decade left this country a mess -- who would put the country in their hands again right now? The auto industry has been saved, banking hasn't collapsed, regulatory agencies are protecting us again; Bin Laden, Qadafi, and many others are gone, America doesn't condone torture as a policy of state, the economy is starting to pick up -- so much is on the upswing again these days that the right-wing is resorting to extremist talk to try to incent people emotionally and irrationally to support them. Thank goodness we're on the right track back.

uncle buckeye is way out there!!! Far far right uncle buckeye? This topic is really old and am surprised patch has let it go on for so long. But uncle buckeye, Bush was the worst president in over 50 years. Its going to take a long long time for our country to come out of all of his messes. And shall I say cheney was a real piece of work.

How utterly unsurprising that you wish to disregard noteworthy actions taken by Mr Obama whilst claiming that they were the previous administration's doing. Yet, you wish to blame the current administration for others that, are regarded as opinion, rightly or wrongly a carryover of that previous administration.
Therefore, I shall agree that the facts that you wish to disregard may well be a continuance and inheritance of the previous administration's agreement.
But, for what matter? The current president is doing what he has promised, ending the wars rather than continuing on. Is that not correct?
You stated earlier that we should continue the Afghan campaign and should not have left Iraq for fear of "Russia or China or somebody else filling the void".
Just who might that be? A country wishing to spend billions upon billions of dollars and lives?
Russia learnt their lesson. China, no. Besides Pakistan does not wish it either. Nor does it wish to have any type of Iranian influence.
There is no reason to carry on the campaigns in either country. That is why negotiatons with Pakistan, the Taliban are moving forward.
The global sphere of influence of the US is the Far East and Pacific. The influence of oil by the middle east is on the wane. The current administration recognises it whilst the republican party candidates have yet to believe it.

Lastly, Uncle Buckeye, please stop with your parroting of that commentator.

You have become his "myrmidon".

The examination of actual fact is much more rewarding than blindly accepting liberal rhetoric.

The inaccuracies about the housing collapse continue. – for anyone to suggest that it was the sole responsibility of republicans is to deny fact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
~~
So how about our CURRENT situation:

“The American public's dependence on the federal government shot up 23% in just two years…. The increase under Obama is the biggest two-year jump since Jimmy Carter…”

The report also found that spending on "dependence programs" accounts for more than 70% of the federal budget.”
~~

Please explain why the democrats REFUSE to submit a budget You tell me how do we plan anything without a budget.

Five trillion in NEW debt since obama. He keeps telling us that his “spending is unsustainable” but he never cuts anything. Oh yeah, that would be contained in his BUDGET.

What is the obama plan? So far he’s tried the pork bill, cash for clunkers, dollars for dishwashers, money for mortgages, and all we have is obamas new 5 trillion debt.

Historically the average recession lasts 16 months. Now I know we’ve had the “summer of recovery” in 2010 but this recession is now THIRTY-EIGHT months old and not over. What’s obamas plan again?

In obamas three years we still have a chronically stagnant economy and now his mess in the middle-east with no positive plan for either. Nah, this country can’t afford another obama sentence

You are citing a Youtube replay of a Fox News report?? And you want to be taken seriously?? uncle, I just can't.

What do you site P Arnold? Cnn! Ha! Hacks!

Liberals (defined) Person so open minded their brains fell out!!!!

Bush and Obama suck! Obama sucks more...But Bush was pretty bad.

Obama sucks so bad that he had full control over the house and senate for 3 years and could only pass a bull shit Health Care bill. He is sad.

Let us look at the first comment regarding the American dependence on the federal government shot up 23% in just two years:
$3 Trillion for money market funds The Treasury originally guaranteed these accounts up to $50 billion. But the Fed extended it whilst stepping in to buy illiquid assets of some funds to help them meet obligations
$1.6 Trillion for commercial paper. The Federal Reserve has become the buyer of last resort in the $1.6 trillion commercial paper market.
$1.5 Trillion for Federal Home Loan Bank securities. The Treasury and the Federal Reserve have are buying debt and mortgage-backed securities from Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae.
$900 Billion for TALF Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility.

Though I hate to quote Sarah, as long Youtube is viable for your purposes.....

"I've read most of them, again, with a great appreciation for the press, for the media....all of them, any of them that have been umm, in front of me, all of these years....I have a vast variety of sources...."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9go38MgZ4w8

continued.......

$900 Billion for to buy nonperforming assets from banks. They shall seek private investors as part of this program.
$700 Billion for Troubled Asset Relief Program known asTARP. The Treasury now owns stock in hundreds of banks, General Motors, Chrysler and the insurer A.I.G. The largest recipients are A.I.G. ($70 billion), Bank of America ($45 billion) and Citigroup ($45 billion cash and $5 billion in support of a loan guarantee). The investments are in the form of preferred stock that pays quarterly dividends, which to date total $2.5 billion.
$400 Billion for Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. The companies were put into conservatorship and the Treasury initially pledged up to $200 billion to cover their losses. Freddie Mac has now received almost $45 billion and Fannie Mae $15 billion.
$53 Billion for A.I.G. The Federal Reserve has provided seed money to create investment vehicles to buy, hold and possibly dispose of bad securities held or insured by A.I.G.
$29 Billion for Bear Stearns.The Federal Reserve bought distressed assets from Bear Stearns to facilitate its sale to JPMorgan Chase.

Indeed, there is much to consider when Uncle Buckeye states that particular rubbish.

Yet, we should believe that it is all about welfare. It is! It is termed Corporate welfare.

Cash for clunkers? Perhaps this is how the auto industry became profitable once more.

Mr Burgundy, how sad that you must resort to profanity. Please cease.

Thank you.

Lastly, the two wars that were inherited cost thusly:

Iraq: $802 Billion or approximately $1.5 Billion per week.

Afghan: $455 Billion and growing. It is estimated at the end it shall be $1.2 Trillion.

Lives lost are inestimable.

Yet Uncle Buckey wishes to continue both and then has the temerity to whinge about the Obama years of recessionary inequities of budgetary practices.

Let us remember upon who's watch those cost were inherited.

Catholics if you are really Catholic can't vote for OBama. It is against your religion. You are not Catholic if you vote for him. PERIOD!! That's not my word that is the word of the Lord!!

Obama is a Marxist, communist. He wants to co-own your homes. Obama just lost this election with his anti Catholic rehtoric. Down with Obama...Down with Obama...Long LIve the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, stateless and revolutionary socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. How well has this worked around the world? This is Obama's dream for America. We must stop this dictator.

My country, 'tis of thee, Sweet land of liberty, Of thee I sing; Land where my fathers died, Land of the pilgrims' pride, From ev'ry mountainside Let freedom ring!

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Is there a way for Patch to simply consolidate all of Burgundy's lying and illogical and inaccurate and pompous paragraphs (I think that covers all of them) into one post, so everyone would have an easier time just scrolling over one pile of excrement as opposed to hopping over multiple piles? Thanks!

Isn't that cute the two silly libs stand together in solidarity! Yeah!!! Flock of sheep.

Well spewed, Burgundy. Baaaa....

I have not followed closley the last few days, but a new nut job has emerged, RON!!!
Obama wants to takes us to communism? Ron, you are truly a whacko. You are a scary person.

P Arnold - 2:11 pm Feb 9, 2012

“You are citing …a Fox News report?? “
~~~
You finally got something correct. It indeed was a “news” report and NOT a commentary that included quotes and clips of actual comments made by barney frank, greenspan,and etc.; but one can choose to remain ignorant if they wish..
~~
Fatima - 4:55 pm Feb 9, 2012

What? Excuse me fatima , allow me to clarify …

“The rise was driven mainly by increases in housing subsidies, an expansion in Medicaid and changes to the welfare system, along with a sharp rise in food stamps, the study found.

"You can't get around the fact that policy decisions made over the past two years, on top of those made over the past several decades, are having a large effect on the pace of growth of the index,"….”

BTW, are you really trying to justify FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS OF NEW DEBT IN THREE YEARS?
~~
Fatima - 5:02 pm Feb 9, 2012

“Cash for clunkers? Perhaps this is how the auto industry became profitable once more.”
~~~
“Cash for clunkers” was a huge obama failure. Check Edmunds. Because most of the bail out money was converted to an equity position the US and Canadian taxpayer will probably NEVER get their money back.

Fatima - 5:13 pm Feb 9, 2012

“Lastly, the two wars …”

You mean the one’s that received bipartisan approval and support!

Fatima I agree, let us remember upon who's watch FIVE TRILLION, that’s ONE THIRD of our FIFTEEN TRILLION debt was accrued.

Geez ,look what you started Jeff!!! Come on, like you didn't know the crazy's wouldn't come out!!! Name callers, on the other hand, show just how deep there intellectual proclivities,and musings, are!!!

Here is how deep it goes Robbie!

Every President is supposed to submit a budget to the congress every year during his or her term. This hack of a President has submitted how many? NONE! So since you opened up your yapper answer for your President since he is so inept. Clinton submitted a balanced budget every year. Obama can't even submit an unbalanced one? Oh that's right he doesnt want a budget or to follow the rule of law. This President would have been impeached in the 70's or 80's.

I don't look to Fox News, as a source of information. A source of amusement....maybe.

I want everyone who supports Obama to list exactly what this President has done for you personally. Not for a friend or family member...For you.

I can't think of one thing that he has done for me yet.

I do have about $8,000 less in expedable income of which I use to give to charity and support my local community. Who loses...Downers Grove community.

Fearing a tide of spending by outside conservative groups, President Obama is giving his blessing to a pro-Democratic Party “super PAC” that will work to help his reelection, his campaign said.

FLIP FLOP...FLIP FLOP...

Lets delve into Gas Price's over the Obama tenure. How has Obama helped America by investing in alternative fuels? I don't see anything yet. Experts are calling for $5.00 gas by summer if the climate in the White House doesn't get more people friendly.

$3.08 Jan 2008
$4.23 Aug 2008
$1.75 Nov 2008 (explanation below)
$2.85 June 2009
$2.90 June 2010
$4.52 June 2011
$3.66 Feb 2011 - Current rate

*July 7, 2008—Crude oil prices settled-in at a new record of $147 per barrel. The U.S. average price for regular gasoline climbs to an all-time high of $4.11 per gallon. Road trip style vacations are put on hold for many summer travelers.

Aug. 5, 2008—Oil prices fall below $120 a barrel. Treehuggers search for the good within the escalating gas prices.

Sept. 15, 2008—The barrel continues to drop below $100 a barrel for the first time in six months. The idea of a serious financial industry recession is discussed as the market literally begins to melt down!

Oct. 16, 2008—Oil prices fall below $70 a barrel, which is less than half of its July peak. Signs of $1.99 a gallon gas brings celebration to the masses. Some consumers begin to talk about dragging out their gas guzzling SUV's and Winnebago's for the first time in months.

Barack Obama (D)

Top $$$$ Contributors

University of California

$1,648,685

Goldman Sachs

$1,013,091

Harvard University

$878,164

Microsoft Corp

$852,167

Google Inc

$814,540

JPMorgan Chase & Co

$808,799

Citigroup Inc

$736,771

Time Warner

$624,618

Sidley Austin LLP

$600,298

Stanford University

$595,716

National Amusements Inc

$563,798

WilmerHale LLP

$550,668

Columbia University

$547,852

Skadden, Arps et al

$543,539

UBS AG

$532,674

IBM Corp

$532,372

General Electric

$529,855

US Government

$513,308

Morgan Stanley

$512,232

Latham & Watkins

$503,295

Big bad Wall Street. Stop giving money to this Anti Business President. Wonder if your base knows you are a money whore who will say he doesn't take money from these people but does behind the scenes.

As of Dec, 2010 Mr. Obama has raised over $125,000,000 for his re-election efforts. The next closest competitor was Mitt Romney at just over $56,000,000. Wow. What a disparity. I guess the person with the most money does win in America these days. Some Democracy we have.

President Obama's estimated net worth.

Net Worth

$11,830,000

So much for being a common man. HA!!

P Arnold 2:11 pm February 9, 2012

“You are citing a Youtube replay of a Fox News report?? And you want to be taken seriously?? uncle, I just can't.”

P Arnold - 10:43 am on Friday, February 10, 2012

“I don't look to Fox News, as a source of information. A source of amusement....maybe.”
~~~

I appreciate your honesty P. It is much safer and requires much less thought if you exclude the views of anyone in dissent isn’t it.

You just keep listening to those voices of reason, mathews, madcow, ed and o’donnel, and basher. I’ll bet you’re still crying that olberman got fired aren’t you. Go ahead, you can admit it.

Well when you’re a myrmidon, you’re a myrmidon – who needs ALL the information anyway..

Actually some are even happy being uninformed P.

I am spewing lies though...Don't listen to me. :)

Actor Bill Murray on Friday said he believes Americans need to be more personally responsible for their well-being.

"I think we ought to be personally responsible," he said on CNBC's "Squawk Box" Friday morning. "I think if you can take care of yourself, and then maybe try to take care of someone else, that's sort of how you're supposed to live.

"It's not a question of asking other people for help or being rescued or anything like that," he continued. "I think we've sort of gotten used to someone looking out for us, and I don't think any other person is necessarily going to be counted on to look out for us.

"I think there's only so many people that can take care of themselves, and can take care of other people. And the rest of the people … they're useful in terms of compost for the whole planet, you know."

Someone from Hollywierd who gets it. I hope there are more out there...

The Senate last passed a budget 1,106 days ago—that would be almost three years—and now the White House is telling Democrats not to bother this year either. Harry Reid will be pleased, because last week the Majority Leader said he had no plans to do so.Asked yesterday about the lack of a Senate budget, spokesman Jay Carney said that "Well, I don't have an opinion to express on how the Senate does its business with regards to this issue." ABC's Jack Tapper pressed, incredulously, "The White House has no opinion about whether or not the Senate should pass a budget?"
Mr. Carney reiterated that President Obama has "no opinion," only that he "looks forward to the Senate acting on the policy initiatives contained within his budget." But Mr. Carney refused to say the Senate should act by even proposing a budget, let alone, you know, actually passing one.The running tally of days without a budget has become a Republican talking point, but there's a lesson here about liberal governance and the Congressional Budget Act of 1974. That law, a Democratic creation, mandates that both chambers by April submit a formal budget blueprint that shows how the government will meet its obligations over the coming year, lays out a general fiscal framework for entitlements and sets priorities for spending and taxes. The law was supposed to increase the incentives for fiscal discipline. But now that House Republicans want to take it seriously, Democrats want to pretend it doesn't exist.

Paul Bryant - 1:18 pm Feb 10, 2012

“We should all think like Bill Murray?”

I don’t believe that is what was intimated but given a choice of exercising personal responsibility vice the liberal philosophy of getting the “government” to take care of you the choice should be obvious. Some just want their “obama money”.

Paul Bryant - 1:15 pm on Feb 10, 2012

“So sayeth Mr. Pot Calling the Kettle Black”

Incorrect accusation.

Paul Bryant - 4:06 pm Feb 10, 2012

“Congress hasn't passed a budget … not that Obama hasn't submitted one which is a lie…”

Congress passes a budget; the president merely submits a budget “request”. Remember obama’s 2012 budget-voted down by the senate 97 to ZIP! Not even one brave little democrat vote! That’s the democrat majority telling their little leader not just no but HELL NO! The house keeps passing budgets but they never go to conference because the senate won’t produce their own. Is harry reid too dumb or just afraid to put something on paper for the voter to see.

I can tell you’re “completely non-partisan” Paul Bryant by your windbag and hatemonger comment.

Paul Bryant -“Offer something concrete …”

See my post from 7:05 pm on Wednesday, February 1, 2012.

Paul Bryant-“…Republican party is all about hate…”

According to The Washington Post obama is the most divisive Commander-in-Chief in history. In HISTORY! Know what Paul Bryant, that really takes a special kind of person.

Uncle and Burgundy....the more you blather, the less it matters.

P Arnold - 6:20 pm on Feb 10, 2012

"....the more you blather..."

I love it when liberals display their intellectual side. And when they combine that with their open minded thirst for knowledge they are truly inspirational P.

Well, Uncle Buckeye, upon revisiting that particular writ of rubbish, I have determined that it should be tossed where it shall do the most good. In the dustbin of failed ideas of Trickle Down Theory.

Especially the tax cuts of the Bush years that have added to the national debt a total of $10 Trillion. Tax cuts that were opposed by his own economic counselours.

Yet you wish to continue them in the face of your concern of the national debt?

No Uncle Buckeye, your ideas are failed ideas of the Grover Norquist policies.

At least you have ceased using your odd little label that seems to have been misappropriated by some chaps who have no idea of its meaning.

To that I say - Well done sir!

r burgundy and uncle buck, wow!!! you 2 are nuts. you both are very distorted on actual facts and what has taken place over the last 15 years. It is depressing. I feel almost sorry for you 2. So misguided. Fatima and a few others are correct. Your right wing, conservative, fiscal policies do not work anymore. To much republican greed. Shame on you both.

Fatima and Paul,
I don't participate in these discussions too often, mainly because when it comes to politics or religion you can count on angry, disparaging rhetoric from the right wing fanatics. Most (yes, most) of the people who spew these right wing parables, can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.....opinion and substantiated information.

A fanatic's only recourse to reasoned discussion or argument is to "shout" nonsensical conceits. Still, am glad for those wiling to battle such misinformation with truth.

Fatima - 8:02 pm Feb 10

“…tax cuts of the Bush years..”

Poor confused Fatima, perhaps you missed this little note in history; in 2008 we had an ELECTION and obama was coroneted – ring any bells?

When he strolled in the debt was 10 trillion, FOUR TRILLION of which occurred during EIGHT YEARS of bush. Since day one of this incompetent regime we have witnessed a FIVE TRILLION DOLLAR INCREASE to our debt in just THREE YEARS!

That’s almost $3 million dollars per minute! He keeps saying his spending is “unsustainable” but apparently he’s either lying or just he’s too immature to control himself.

And he’s not done! He sent Congress his 2013 budget, albeit late again, for 3.7 TRILLION projecting the federal deficit will exceed ONE TRILLION for the fourth consecutive year!

Get the picture – bush FOUR trillion in EIGHT years, barrack SIX trillion in FOUR years! Those are the facts my little myrmidon Fatima. And wait until you see his tax increases beginning in 2013!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904353504576567460396287134.html

And why is he always late? Too much golf or too much fundraising?
~~~
Paul - 4:51 am Feb 11

“…you 2 are nuts. you both are very distorted on actual facts…”

Paul dumps in a typical liberal comment – calls me a name, levels an unsubstantiated accusation and then runs and hides.

Please, display for us your wealth of knowledge and explain how I have distorted the facts contained in this post.

Ya and the stupid Occupy movement(All lazy Libs) are just peaceful hippies who have nothing to say right? They aren't opinonated are they. Open your eyes.

I remember a certain economist stating that the only reason that Republican politicians and voters believe in the tax cut theory and Trickle Down theory is that they do not understand them. It is akin to believing to the old medical practice of "bleeding" the patient as a method of "cure". Insead, the patien dies after numerous "bleedings". This is what has happened to the country over the past 30 years or so.
The Trickle Down theory was supposed to enrich the wealthy, who, in turn, would invest in business that would ensure more jobs. Instead, jobs were shipped overseas where the wealthy invested their monies. Meanwhile, the middle class has shrunk, jobs have been eliminated and the poor have increased. In short, the wealthy have gained more wealth whilst the remainder of the country has become poorer.

P Arnold - 11:20 am Feb 11

“…you can count on angry, disparaging rhetoric from the right wing fanatics…”

Other than to “vent” your anger, was there an actual purpose to this post P?

For some reason the liberal mind cannot grasp the fact geo bush is no longer in office and the discussion is now about the CURRENT president.

I understand your dislike of fox but for you to say ““You are citing a Youtube replay of a Fox News report?? And you want to be taken seriously??” is just plain silly. If you had viewed my reference and wanted to take me to task about its content, ok, but to cavalierly deny it any credibility displays the mind of a myrmidon. Try this reference which includes documents located by The Smoking Gun:

http://www.larryelder.com/b/Smoking-Gun-Document-Ties-Policy-To-Housing-Crisis/-900542100341096364.html

Try answering this – why has there been NO budget presented from the senate? What is harry afraid of P? Congress is required under the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 to pass a spending plan and then have it scored by the Congressional Budget Office and signed by the president. That none of this happens suggests a level of disrespect for the law and the people found only among criminals.

I’ve asked this question before and none of the liberal intelligentsia has responded. Why not P? I guarantee you that if the republicans failed to pass a budget I would be just as mad!

Oblamer is just an exposed communist. Won't get the white guilt vote no matter how hard Hollywood tries. He has lied about everything. Can't run on his record. Still smokes while supposedly worrying himself sick about our health. Last but not least.... BANKRUPTED THE COUNTRY......how do you get past that? The liberal media of course.

Ron and Chad have you now become the sidekick of the Lone Ranger?

Ron, am still here. Not hiding dude. Just nothing more to discuss. You label everyone as liberals if they have a democratic opinion which is way out there Ron. I did not call you a name either but stated a fact, when you are republican these days, you are for the right, rich, and are in my opinion, a cowardly human being that can not see right from wrong no matter what would be at stake. You sound like chad who got banned for vulgar language. I saw in one of your posts a 4 letter word that should ban you. Typical republican. Weak on substance but has the tongue of the devil.

http://news.yahoo.com/bailout-chaos-pm-papademos-tells-greece-005703038.html

This will be the USA if we re-elect Obama.

Yeah rich people. Thanks for providing most of the jobs in this country! Thank you. thank you. thank you.

Rich people are not job creators. That's just another Repubilcan lie - they take them overseas to India and China.

Three hundred replies? I was considering retiring at the top of my game, but there's too many silly Republicans out there.

Jeff

Fatima some loose ends:

“Yes, Uncle Buckeye, the two wars that you wish to continue”

Want to show me where I said that please.

“…the tax cuts of the Bush years that have added to the national debt a total of $10 Trillion …”

First, I could not care less about Norquist. Second, The republican winners involved with the November 2010 demolition of the democrats did exactly what they were elected to do. Third, bush tax cut repeal would yield the Treasury, at the very most, $80 billion a year and obama has already increased the debt FIVE TRILLION.

Common sense demonstrates that we do not have a taxing problem, we have a SPENDING problem. Unfortunately most liberals are too stupid to understand fact.

“…lack of compromise…”

Now that the democrats don’t control all three branches ol’ bho NOW demands compromise. Any idea why the senate has refused to bring any of the twenty plus house bills to a vote?

Enough of the standard liberal ploy of subject shift, grow up and try addressing some of the questions and issues previously noted: no budget, what are bhos “successful” projects, the 2013 obama tax increases, what cuts has obama proposed, and etcetera. What of solyndra and the all the other failed obama crony corporate fiascos? The idiocy of the xl pipeline.

“…no need to shout…”

The caps are being employed for emphasis because some liberals require “pointers” to help compensate for their evident poor reading skills.

Uncle Buckeye: Feb 1 7:05 PM : "Military spending – refine but avoid drastic cuts, total withdrawal from Iraq may have been too soon and must be avoided in Afghanistan, if we leave a void in military strength some country will fill it be it China or Russia or maybe someone else.

Please explain how this could not be understood as continuing the wars?

You side step other areas I've mentioned - brilliant!

Therefore, I'll simply ignore yours. Yet, I'll thank you for continuance of the Hellenic term. It demonstrates your simplistic need to follow your favourite chappie, Neil B.

Cheers!

Uncle Buckeye: Feb 1 7:05 PM : "Military spending – refine but avoid drastic cuts, total withdrawal from Iraq may have been too soon and must be avoided in Afghanistan, if we leave a void in military strength some country will fill it be it China or Russia or maybe someone else.

Please explain how this could not be understood as continuing the wars?

You side step other areas I've mentioned - brilliant!

Therefore, I'll simply ignore yours. Yet, I'll thank you for continuance of the Hellenic term. It demonstrates your simplistic need to follow your favourite chappie, Neil B.

Cheers!

Amazing, a double post!

After last night's posting, I've had additional thoughts to add.

What troubles me here about some of the fellows who have posted is their complete lack of objectivity and their vehemence in belief of their idealogues assertations. It was not only Providence but the free will of its founders that this country has been able to sustain and thrive, whilst welcoming newcomers who have added to the recipe of success. It was their belief in a system of objectivity, compromise and altruism that has allowed this country to grow and prosper. At various times in its history the ship has been driven off course, yet was righted by men of conscience and foresight. It appears to me that the current situation is once again, being righted. Yet, their are those who for whatever reason feel the need to hinder, indeed, obfuscate its progress and instead eschew goals of self-interest and greed.
It has produced the corporate scandals, tax cuts that have only enriched the wealthy, coporate CEO salaries that have risen to obscene levels whilst the workers of the same business have seen layoffs, benefits reduced, pittances for pay increases and an increased workloads. It is responsible for the deregulation of industries that have resulted in the risk taking of bankers and speculatours that have resulted in the bailouts that have indebted this nation.

I do not believe anyone is saying that hard work is wrong. Yet is it not wrong, however when the odds are so stacked against the average worker to make ends meet when they see their wages cut, their jobs shipped overseas, their homes devalued and their politicians wishing to cut corporate taxes whilst also terming the life security sytems in which they have paid as being "entitlements"?
If one were to read the statement by the ILO (International Labour Organisation http://www.rttnews.com/1803521/global-unemployment-outlook-gloomy-ilo-report-says.aspx), it is indeed chilling: "warning that global unemployment is set to rise in the next five years - governments must act decisively, in a coordinated fashion to reduce fear - further stimulus must be provided". Yet, we see our own politicans in complete disregard, wishing to cut programs, cut taxes, aid big business in a manner that does not seem to be recompensated in job making or job investment.
The artificial crisis of the debt ceiling fiasco of last summer is a prime example. As someone else has stated when the Republican party made substantial gains in the mid-term elections, one of their leaders stated that their primary goal was to make Barack Obama a one term president.
Really? What about thousands upon thousands of unemployed? What about those who no longer qualify for unemployment because they have been unemployed for so long. What about the under-employed? How is any of this aided by tax cuts and primary goals?

Lastly, the wars: Would it not be fair to observe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have gone on far too long? Who has benefited from the money and lives lost? Why have China, Japan and other countries not been involved? Are they not direct beneficiaries of the destruction of terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda? Are not the multi-national corporations benefitting. Yet the US gives them tax breaks. Overnight, I heard John McCain interviewed on the wars, etc. He believes the US should continue them, that the US was wrong in taking a backseat in Libya, that the US should get involved in Syria and finally, keep all options open for an assault upon Iran.
At some point, the US has to learn the lesson that the Soviet Union did in Afghanistan; you shall surely be bankrupted if you follow that path.
If their is a coalition of agreement, then perhaps military action should be used. But, waging wars that seem to benefit nations and multi-national businesses without compensation is foolhardy to say the least.

Fatima - 8:48 pm Feb 12, 2012

Fatima - “Please explain how this could not be understood as continuing the wars?”

Uncle Buckeye: Feb 1 7:05 PM : "Military spending – refine but avoid drastic cuts, (1)

total withdrawal from Iraq may have been too soon and must be avoided in Afghanistan, (2)

if we leave a void in military STRENGTH some country will fill it be it China or Russia or maybe someone else”. (3)

Note the use of the word “STRENGTH” vice “presence”. What do you think Fatima, should we relinquish our militaries leadership role in the world? Who would you choose to fulfill that role?

Is that sufficient or do you require more explanation?

Fatima - “Therefore, I'll simply ignore yours.” I’ll bet you also use phrases like “I know you are but what am I” don’t you.

Fatima - “Yet, I'll thank you for continuance of the Hellenic term …” No need to thank me Fatima, just consider it my educational gift to both you and the other “myrmidons”.

This has become a two- or three-person conversation, so I'm going to call it a draw and discontinue the comments. Thanks for your participation!